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FrankyG888 · Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 267 Location: Overland Park, KS

Come on Israel, really.... This is what you give us... What's the matter, there was a little too much peace so you had to stir things up a bit? The Turkish ship was in international waters for the love of God.

Don't get me wrong. The embargo is reasonable, and I like the idea that economic sanctions can work, but this was the definition of excessive force.

Please help me understand the thought process. The leadership must have known that this was one big PR stunt; a way to make Israel look bad. And they fell for the ever-loving bait... hook, line and SINKER.

I support Israel, and I support the economic sanctions, but you don't see South Korea or the United States boarding or shooting up every ship that enters or leaves North Korea. The free world does NOT act like this. It is wholly and completely unacceptable.

JuntaJoe · Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 7361 Location: Texas

So a ship coming into an openly declared embargo that has been going on for years with the sole purpose of causing a confrontation.....becomes an outrage?

It's a non-issue, imo.

The international waters angle is a non-issue too. It would have been different if the ship was using international waters to go somewhere else. The ship was heading to Gaza anyway with the intent of violating Israeli waters. Btw, since Gaza, nor Palestine for that matter, is a recognized country by anyone, it has no territorial waters of its own. The waters off Gaza are Israeli waters.

Everyone now has seen how the embargo ship attacked Israeli soldiers the moment they boarded the boat. Rule number one in the Darwin Game is not to attack professional soldiers with clubs and knives in hopes of getting a positive outcome.

The ship went there with the sole goal of getting boarded and reacting violently in order to cause a propaganda confrontation. That is exactly what they got too. So why should I feel outraged at a bit of staged propaganda? I'm not an ox to be led by the nose.

FrankyG888 · Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 267 Location: Overland Park, KS

JuntaJoe wrote: The international waters angle is a non-issue too. It would have been different if the ship was using international waters to go somewhere else. The ship was heading to Gaza anyway with the intent of violating Israeli waters. Btw, since Gaza, nor Palestine for that matter, is a recognized country by anyone, it has no territorial waters of its own. The waters off Gaza are Israeli waters.

This assertion is simply untrue. The United Nations does not recognize Gaza as a part of Israel; it is still considered a part of Egypt. The Gaza strip, Sinai Peninsula, West Bank and Golan Heights were all taken from Egypt, Jordan and Syria and according to the United Nations must be returned to their respective owners.

And I am not outraged that there was a spectacle, I am outraged that Israel, our greatest ally in the region, was so foolish as to be goaded into what was obviously what you called, staged propaganda. This was a trap, and Israel took the bait.

They then compounded their problems by initially telling the world that their soldiers were completely unarmed, this was clearly untrue.

JuntaJoe · Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 7361 Location: Texas

Their choices were boarding, sinking, or letting the ship pass into Gaza. The last two open up even more cans of worms.

Remember this method the Israelis used was the SOP for the last year without any incident. As a matter of fact, they had already done it 4 times earlier that day on other ships with no problems.

If the Israelis boarded every boat fully prepared for an armed assault then you can be sure there a lot more people would have died over the last year. Armed assaults on crowded boats can be very nasty to the boat passengers.

The Israelis are facing this the best way they know how to avoid frequent deaths on these ships. They land a crowd control force more like a police force loaded with non-lethal gear and have a full assault team on standby in case violence breaks out. This is a very common police procedure around the world. Londoners send in the Bobbies first to a rowdy crowd with the SAS parked in vans nearby in case it gets ugly.

Look, I'm no fan of Netanyahu. There will be no peace while he is in office. I could rant all day about the provocative things he does. But this is one case where he was damned no matter which response he used. The boat crowd provocateurs wanted this to happen and were willing to risk the lives of people on that boat to get a CNN moment. The shame belongs squarely on them.